Apparel Update

March 23, 2015

Apparel design is a lot different from bag design.  For one thing, with apparel we start on the computer from day 1 with all the patterns generated from CAD drawings, whereas with bags we start out making the physical pattern-pieces ourselves.  With apparel we communicate with the factory using drawings and measurements – as opposed to patterns and samples with bags – and there are long delays between sample rounds.  After a year of development work and three rounds of prototypes, we’re still working through some basic issues related to sizing and fit.  It almost feels like we’ve had to reinvent “the jacket” and “the pant” from scratch.

It takes a team of 4 sample-makers working two full days to make one jacket.  Once the sample is complete, making further changes to it is not simply a matter of tailoring and tweaking.  The garments are so complex and the pattern pieces so interconnected that any change in one area will necessitate changes in many other areas as well, and those changes need to be made to the CAD design before the new sample is made.  You can’t just take the last sample and modify it on a sewing machine.  A whole new set of patterns has to be created, new fabrics cut, and the whole process starts again.  It’s very time consuming, and the sample makers are very busy.

The good news is that the outer jacket, inner jacket, and jersey are all getting much closer. In fact the inner rain jacket and jersey have been basically done for months.  And the pants are getting closer.  A few months ago, right before I left for Vietnam, we received our latest samples using the Schoeller c_change 3-layer waterproof breathable fabric that we had been waiting on.  Galen, Andrew, and I met in White Salmon to go over them.

Outer Jacket

Mosko Moto-Motorcycle-Soft-Bags-Dualsport-Offroad-Adventure -Soft Luggage -Pannier-Duffle - KTM - BMW - KLR - Rackless - Reckless - Tank Bag - Adventure Jacket - Pants - Jersey 3-23-15 ( (35)

Mosko Moto-Motorcycle-Soft-Bags-Dualsport-Offroad-Adventure -Soft Luggage -Pannier-Duffle - KTM - BMW - KLR - Rackless - Reckless - Tank Bag - Adventure Jacket - Pants - Jersey 3-23-15 ( (38)

We’re using these GETBLOCK drysuit-style zippers on the chest vents for extra waterproofing.  The chest vents are very exposed to wind/rain, and they sit relatively flat, so these zippers will work there.

Mosko Moto-Motorcycle-Soft-Bags-Dualsport-Offroad-Adventure -Soft Luggage -Pannier-Duffle - KTM - BMW - KLR - Rackless - Reckless - Tank Bag - Adventure Jacket - Pants - Jersey 3-23-15 ( (41)

For flap control, we added these three straps down the side.  However we didn’t like this design because it doesn’t work right, and also it looks like a straight-jacket.  So we decided to go with some heavy-duty hypalon/velcro straps instead.

Mosko Moto-Motorcycle-Soft-Bags-Dualsport-Offroad-Adventure -Soft Luggage -Pannier-Duffle - KTM - BMW - KLR - Rackless - Reckless - Tank Bag - Adventure Jacket - Pants - Jersey 3-23-15 ( (36)

We didn’t like these sleeve adjustment straps either.  We changed these to hypalon as well.

Mosko Moto-Motorcycle-Soft-Bags-Dualsport-Offroad-Adventure -Soft Luggage -Pannier-Duffle - KTM - BMW - KLR - Rackless - Reckless - Tank Bag - Adventure Jacket - Pants - Jersey 3-23-15 ( (37)

 

Mosko Moto-Motorcycle-Soft-Bags-Dualsport-Offroad-Adventure -Soft Luggage -Pannier-Duffle - KTM - BMW - KLR - Rackless - Reckless - Tank Bag - Adventure Jacket - Pants - Jersey 3-23-15 ( (39)

We’re using this cool waterproof pocket closure.  The opening is on the bottom of the storm flap so it sits upside down when the flap is closed.   Magnets keep the flap down.  On the next sample round we decided to change these pockets to be hand pockets, however we’re still using this design for the pockets on the pants.

Mosko Moto-Motorcycle-Soft-Bags-Dualsport-Offroad-Adventure -Soft Luggage -Pannier-Duffle - KTM - BMW - KLR - Rackless - Reckless - Tank Bag - Adventure Jacket - Pants - Jersey 3-23-15 ( (40)

Here’s the original prototype (left) compared to the second round prototype (right).  Making progress.

Mosko Moto-Motorcycle-Soft-Bags-Dualsport-Offroad-Adventure -Soft Luggage -Pannier-Duffle - KTM - BMW - KLR - Rackless - Reckless - Tank Bag - Adventure Jacket - Pants - Jersey 3-23-15 ( (43)

Inner Rain Jacket

The inner rain jacket doesn’t “look” like a rain liner.  It looks like a normal jacket.  So you can wear it around camp, into town, etc.  It bugs me that when I go on longer trips, I have my moto jacket with me but then I typically also have a “normal” jacket as well.  This inner jacket is designed to be both.  It can be worn together with the outer jacket or worn on its own, either on or off the bike.

A natural question might be: why have an inner rain jacket if the outer jacket is totally waterproof?  For 90% of the rain you’d encounter you won’t need the inner jacket.  However, that one time when you find yourself in a multi-day storm with no option of waiting it out or going around, the amount of water being thrown at the jacket is just way beyond what any other kind of garment has to withstand.  70mph in driving ran for several days in a row is going to put any waterproof breathable garment to the test, especially if it has a mechanical venting system, which most motorcycle jackets do.  Water can find a way in through the sleeve openings, neck opening, bottom opening, any zippers/vents that are not fully closed, etc.  A few hours of rain is one thing, but a 3-day deluge is a whole different story.  That’s where the inner jacket comes into play.  The outer jacket blocks all the wind/water pressure, then the inner jacket is a final barrier to keep your inner insulating layers 100% dry, even if water finds a way through somehow.

The inner jacket is a 2-layer waterproof breathable fabric with a removable hood.  The jacket packs down into a small MOLLE pouch/stuff sack when not in use.  It has a removable hood with a slim profile, so you can wear it under your helmet to keep water from running down the back of your neck.

Mosko Moto-Motorcycle-Soft-Bags-Dualsport-Offroad-Adventure -Soft Luggage -Pannier-Duffle - KTM - BMW - KLR - Rackless - Reckless - Tank Bag - Adventure Jacket - Pants - Jersey 3-23-15 ( (44)

This is how it connects to the outer jacket.  There are 4 of these clips on the front, two on the sleeves, and one behind the neck.  It’s really easy to get on/off.

Mosko Moto-Motorcycle-Soft-Bags-Dualsport-Offroad-Adventure -Soft Luggage -Pannier-Duffle - KTM - BMW - KLR - Rackless - Reckless - Tank Bag - Adventure Jacket - Pants - Jersey 3-23-15 ( (42)

An early version of the MOLLE stuff sack.

 

Mosko Moto-Motorcycle-Soft-Bags-Dualsport-Offroad-Adventure -Soft Luggage -Pannier-Duffle - KTM - BMW - KLR - Rackless - Reckless - Tank Bag - Adventure Jacket - Pants - Jersey 3-23-15 ( (45)

Outer Pants

The outer pants have been the most difficult for us to get sized correctly.  The first round samples were made for a giant (left), and the second round weren’t much better (right).  The sizing is so far off that it’s actually been kind of tough to evaluate the other features.

Mosko Moto-Motorcycle-Soft-Bags-Dualsport-Offroad-Adventure -Soft Luggage -Pannier-Duffle - KTM - BMW - KLR - Rackless - Reckless - Tank Bag - Adventure Jacket - Pants - Jersey 3-23-15 ( (50)

We’re making the cuffs super beefy, with lots of super fabric and leather, since this area takes so much abuse, and also comes into to contact with the hot engine/exhaust.

Mosko Moto-Motorcycle-Soft-Bags-Dualsport-Offroad-Adventure -Soft Luggage -Pannier-Duffle - KTM - BMW - KLR - Rackless - Reckless - Tank Bag - Adventure Jacket - Pants - Jersey 3-23-15 ( (51)

We were using these 3/4 length inner liners, however we found that when we were putting them on or taking them off, our feet were getting caught on the liner, so we changed them to a full-length liner.

Mosko Moto-Motorcycle-Soft-Bags-Dualsport-Offroad-Adventure -Soft Luggage -Pannier-Duffle - KTM - BMW - KLR - Rackless - Reckless - Tank Bag - Adventure Jacket - Pants - Jersey 3-23-15 ( (49)

Riding Jersey

The jersey is pretty much done.  I wore it on the moto trip through Vietnam this winter and it worked great. This is made from a mesh-type fabric.  Here it is without a pressure suit.

Mosko Moto-Motorcycle-Soft-Bags-Dualsport-Offroad-Adventure -Soft Luggage -Pannier-Duffle - KTM - BMW - KLR - Rackless - Reckless - Tank Bag - Adventure Jacket - Pants - Jersey 3-23-15 ( (48)

And with a pressure suit,

Mosko Moto-Motorcycle-Soft-Bags-Dualsport-Offroad-Adventure -Soft Luggage -Pannier-Duffle - KTM - BMW - KLR - Rackless - Reckless - Tank Bag - Adventure Jacket - Pants - Jersey 3-23-15 ( (47)

Factory Trip

We put together a big set of revisions and sent it off to the factory.  Four weeks later, I met with the factory and reviewed the revised samples in person, bringing them back to the US with me after the meeting.    They were still working on our samples when I arrived.

Mosko Moto-Motorcycle-Soft-Bags-Dualsport-Offroad-Adventure -Soft Luggage -Pannier-Duffle - KTM - BMW - KLR - Rackless - Reckless - Tank Bag - Adventure Jacket - Pants - Jersey 3-23-15 ( (16)

Mosko Moto-Motorcycle-Soft-Bags-Dualsport-Offroad-Adventure -Soft Luggage -Pannier-Duffle - KTM - BMW - KLR - Rackless - Reckless - Tank Bag - Adventure Jacket - Pants - Jersey 3-23-15 ( (18)

Mosko Moto-Motorcycle-Soft-Bags-Dualsport-Offroad-Adventure -Soft Luggage -Pannier-Duffle - KTM - BMW - KLR - Rackless - Reckless - Tank Bag - Adventure Jacket - Pants - Jersey 3-23-15 ( (19)

Mosko Moto-Motorcycle-Soft-Bags-Dualsport-Offroad-Adventure -Soft Luggage -Pannier-Duffle - KTM - BMW - KLR - Rackless - Reckless - Tank Bag - Adventure Jacket - Pants - Jersey 3-23-15 ( (17)

The outer jacket is looking good.

Mosko Moto-Motorcycle-Soft-Bags-Dualsport-Offroad-Adventure -Soft Luggage -Pannier-Duffle - KTM - BMW - KLR - Rackless - Reckless - Tank Bag - Adventure Jacket - Pants - Jersey 3-23-15 (1)

Mosko Moto-Motorcycle-Soft-Bags-Dualsport-Offroad-Adventure -Soft Luggage -Pannier-Duffle - KTM - BMW - KLR - Rackless - Reckless - Tank Bag - Adventure Jacket - Pants - Jersey 3-23-15 ( (34)

Mosko Moto-Motorcycle-Soft-Bags-Dualsport-Offroad-Adventure -Soft Luggage -Pannier-Duffle - KTM - BMW - KLR - Rackless - Reckless - Tank Bag - Adventure Jacket - Pants - Jersey 3-23-15 ( (33)

The hypalon adjustment straps work great.  You can really get a very custom fit by setting them to the correct length.

Mosko Moto-Motorcycle-Soft-Bags-Dualsport-Offroad-Adventure -Soft Luggage -Pannier-Duffle - KTM - BMW - KLR - Rackless - Reckless - Tank Bag - Adventure Jacket - Pants - Jersey 3-23-15 ( (25)

Mosko Moto-Motorcycle-Soft-Bags-Dualsport-Offroad-Adventure -Soft Luggage -Pannier-Duffle - KTM - BMW - KLR - Rackless - Reckless - Tank Bag - Adventure Jacket - Pants - Jersey 3-23-15 ( (26)

We worked on a design for the molle stuff sack for the outer rain jacket.

Mosko Moto-Motorcycle-Soft-Bags-Dualsport-Offroad-Adventure -Soft Luggage -Pannier-Duffle - KTM - BMW - KLR - Rackless - Reckless - Tank Bag - Adventure Jacket - Pants - Jersey 3-23-15 ( (8)

Mosko Moto-Motorcycle-Soft-Bags-Dualsport-Offroad-Adventure -Soft Luggage -Pannier-Duffle - KTM - BMW - KLR - Rackless - Reckless - Tank Bag - Adventure Jacket - Pants - Jersey 3-23-15 ( (31)

The pants were still too long and baggy.  Plus the knee armor and outer protection was sitting like 4″ below my knee.  Also the thigh-vent zipper were impossible to close, they were getting caught in the liner material.  More work to be done here.

Mosko Moto-Motorcycle-Soft-Bags-Dualsport-Offroad-Adventure -Soft Luggage -Pannier-Duffle - KTM - BMW - KLR - Rackless - Reckless - Tank Bag - Adventure Jacket - Pants - Jersey 3-23-15 ( (30)

Mosko Moto-Motorcycle-Soft-Bags-Dualsport-Offroad-Adventure -Soft Luggage -Pannier-Duffle - KTM - BMW - KLR - Rackless - Reckless - Tank Bag - Adventure Jacket - Pants - Jersey 3-23-15 ( (29)

Mosko Moto-Motorcycle-Soft-Bags-Dualsport-Offroad-Adventure -Soft Luggage -Pannier-Duffle - KTM - BMW - KLR - Rackless - Reckless - Tank Bag - Adventure Jacket - Pants - Jersey 3-23-15 ( (28)

On the inner jacket we added a neck loop both inside and outside the collar, so you can connect it to the outer jacket in either spot depending on whether you need the hood or not.  If you’re not using the hood but want to leave it attached to the jacket, just tuck it inside the outer jacket and use the inside attachment loop.

Mosko Moto-Motorcycle-Soft-Bags-Dualsport-Offroad-Adventure -Soft Luggage -Pannier-Duffle - KTM - BMW - KLR - Rackless - Reckless - Tank Bag - Adventure Jacket - Pants - Jersey 3-23-15 ( (24)

Waterproof zippers on the rain jacket.

Mosko Moto-Motorcycle-Soft-Bags-Dualsport-Offroad-Adventure -Soft Luggage -Pannier-Duffle - KTM - BMW - KLR - Rackless - Reckless - Tank Bag - Adventure Jacket - Pants - Jersey 3-23-15 ( (23)

Mosko Moto-Motorcycle-Soft-Bags-Dualsport-Offroad-Adventure -Soft Luggage -Pannier-Duffle - KTM - BMW - KLR - Rackless - Reckless - Tank Bag - Adventure Jacket - Pants - Jersey 3-23-15 ( (22)

Mosko Moto-Motorcycle-Soft-Bags-Dualsport-Offroad-Adventure -Soft Luggage -Pannier-Duffle - KTM - BMW - KLR - Rackless - Reckless - Tank Bag - Adventure Jacket - Pants - Jersey 3-23-15 ( (20)

On the jersey we ran into an interesting issue.  The sample room had switched threads on the neck sewing, and the new thread did not stretch at all, which made the jersey really hard to put on.  Fixed that.

Mosko Moto-Motorcycle-Soft-Bags-Dualsport-Offroad-Adventure -Soft Luggage -Pannier-Duffle - KTM - BMW - KLR - Rackless - Reckless - Tank Bag - Adventure Jacket - Pants - Jersey 3-23-15 ( (15)

The jersey has this little stash pocket on the sleeve.

Mosko Moto-Motorcycle-Soft-Bags-Dualsport-Offroad-Adventure -Soft Luggage -Pannier-Duffle - KTM - BMW - KLR - Rackless - Reckless - Tank Bag - Adventure Jacket - Pants - Jersey 3-23-15 ( (14)

And also this little internal pocket at the bottom near the waistline

Mosko Moto-Motorcycle-Soft-Bags-Dualsport-Offroad-Adventure -Soft Luggage -Pannier-Duffle - KTM - BMW - KLR - Rackless - Reckless - Tank Bag - Adventure Jacket - Pants - Jersey 3-23-15 ( (12)

In the inner pocket we put a shammy for cleaning goggles or face mask.  It has an alligator clip holding it there, so you can disconnect it for use.

Mosko Moto-Motorcycle-Soft-Bags-Dualsport-Offroad-Adventure -Soft Luggage -Pannier-Duffle - KTM - BMW - KLR - Rackless - Reckless - Tank Bag - Adventure Jacket - Pants - Jersey 3-23-15 ( (13)

Also added thumb holes on the jersey, so you can get your arm in the outer jacket without the sleeves pulling up.

Mosko Moto-Motorcycle-Soft-Bags-Dualsport-Offroad-Adventure -Soft Luggage -Pannier-Duffle - KTM - BMW - KLR - Rackless - Reckless - Tank Bag - Adventure Jacket - Pants - Jersey 3-23-15 ( (11)

Mosko Moto-Motorcycle-Soft-Bags-Dualsport-Offroad-Adventure -Soft Luggage -Pannier-Duffle - KTM - BMW - KLR - Rackless - Reckless - Tank Bag - Adventure Jacket - Pants - Jersey 3-23-15 ( (9)

Mosko Moto-Motorcycle-Soft-Bags-Dualsport-Offroad-Adventure -Soft Luggage -Pannier-Duffle - KTM - BMW - KLR - Rackless - Reckless - Tank Bag - Adventure Jacket - Pants - Jersey 3-23-15 ( (10)

Fabric Selection

While I was there we did some waterproof testing on the Schoeller fabric.  They have this machine that clamps down on the fabric like a mason jar.  Then they force water under high pressure against the “wet” side of the fabric.  On the “dry” side they put a piece of white tissue paper so you can see if any water is getting through.  We ran this test all over the jacket, on pretty much every seam and panel, and for several minutes in every location.

Mosko Moto-Motorcycle-Soft-Bags-Dualsport-Offroad-Adventure -Soft Luggage -Pannier-Duffle - KTM - BMW - KLR - Rackless - Reckless - Tank Bag - Adventure Jacket - Pants - Jersey 3-23-15 ( (7)

Mosko Moto-Motorcycle-Soft-Bags-Dualsport-Offroad-Adventure -Soft Luggage -Pannier-Duffle - KTM - BMW - KLR - Rackless - Reckless - Tank Bag - Adventure Jacket - Pants - Jersey 3-23-15 ( (6)

Mosko Moto-Motorcycle-Soft-Bags-Dualsport-Offroad-Adventure -Soft Luggage -Pannier-Duffle - KTM - BMW - KLR - Rackless - Reckless - Tank Bag - Adventure Jacket - Pants - Jersey 3-23-15 ( (5)

Mosko Moto-Motorcycle-Soft-Bags-Dualsport-Offroad-Adventure -Soft Luggage -Pannier-Duffle - KTM - BMW - KLR - Rackless - Reckless - Tank Bag - Adventure Jacket - Pants - Jersey 3-23-15 ( (4)

Mosko Moto-Motorcycle-Soft-Bags-Dualsport-Offroad-Adventure -Soft Luggage -Pannier-Duffle - KTM - BMW - KLR - Rackless - Reckless - Tank Bag - Adventure Jacket - Pants - Jersey 3-23-15 ( (3)

Here’s a couple of video clips of us running the waterproof test on different parts of the jacket.

We found some inconsistencies in the fabric.  That surprised me, because Schoeller is a super-premium brand used by a lot of high-end gear manufacturers.  It’s extremely expensive, about 50% more than gore-tex.  So I was really surprised to see water getting through in a couple of places.  That shouldn’t be happening, so now we’re back on the hunt for a new fabric. We’re leaning toward Toray, but not the original kevlar weave we used.  Our friends at Kuiu, Trew Gear, and Stio all use Toray and swear by it.  We reached out to our contact there a few weeks ago and we have a whole bunch of new swatches to look through.

In other news

– Thanks for all the Reckless pre-orders!  We’ll keep everyone up to date on scheduling.  We just received word of a labor strike.  Hoping it won’t affect the dates.

– The first couple BMW adapters shipped out last week.  Hoping to get some pics/feedback on those.  We placed a small production order with the laser cutting shop.

– The next batch of wedges/frames is being milled right now.  As soon as those are done, we can start shipping backcountry panniers again.

– Still working on getting product pics and videos edited and online.

– We have a tank bag prototype!  More on that shortly.

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19 thoughts on “Apparel Update

  1. Mark Ritchie

    This looks great! I know long days yet, but if you offer color options in the jacket/pants, aside from black, do a real gray. The color makes a HUGE difference to heat in the tropics and other places, and even Klim doesn’t get this right — their “gray” options are really mostly still black.

    Reply
  2. Bill Whitacre

    Hi guys. I continue to love what you’re doing and your communication. No doubt, it builds customer equity. It’s kinda like being and investor along the way and all that we need to is look forward to the products.

    I have been watching Under Armour for the last five years and they get color right. I’m good with black or grey as long as there are plenty of vents. I like the irredescent color that you accented with but I would consider using a bit more to differentiate your product.

    I couldn’t tell about collar on jacket but it needs to be enough collar but not too stiff. I like a collar but it just needs to be comfortable.

    Another thought is a 1/4 zip mock on jersey. It becomes more functional as an all day and cool evening jersey.

    I’m really happy with panniers. I bought them out of curiosity and became significantly impressed after using them.

    Reply
    1. moskomoto Post author

      Thanks bill! The zippers and fabrics in these latest samples are all substitutes, just whatever the factory had laying about. Sometimes the two sides of the zipper aren’t even matched to each other. When we get. Little further along wih development we’ll see about getting something closer to the real thing. In general though we won’t see the actual colors we want until the very end. For now we’re just working on size, shape, and features.

      Reply
  3. Greg

    I can’t say it enough. 3DO armor is too small and not form fitting. BMW has the standard that all should emulate.

    The design overall looks great! I like the two layer system.

    Reply
    1. moskomoto Post author

      Thanks Greg. The xergo d30 has a larger more wrapped profile than the d30 evo and evo pro. I’ll take a look at the bmw setup. Personally I wear a oressure suit with separate armor for the reason you mentioned. I like the forcefield stuff. Our next round sample is going to feature zip out liners on everything for folks who want to wear separate armor.

      Reply
  4. Jim

    The jacket, along with all the other gear is looking awesome! do you have plans to add some exhaust vents on the back?
    Also, just a thought, but I really like the magnetic flaps for the pockets and you should consider doing them on the zipper flap. Would be a sweet addition and yet one more thing to set your gear apart from the rest off the market!
    Is the plan for this jacket to fit over a pressure suit like the forcefield?
    Hopefully these will be done by September so I can pick one up for my rtw trip

    Reply
    1. moskomoto Post author

      Thanks Jim! There’s two exhaust vents on the back but they are currently placed way too low. They’ll move up in the next round sample.

      Reply
      1. redbeardtravels

        Gotcha! I was thinking those two zippers were access to a pocket, which would actually be pretty awesome as opposed to the kangaroo pouch pocket that most companies use. The problem with that style is that you have to remove the jacket to get anything from it. If you had the two zippers you could potentially access it while it’s still on. Depending on how much freedom of movement you have that is

  5. Normajean

    Do y’all have any plans to make the jacket and pants with ladies fitment in mind? There is just not a wide variety of ladies gear that is worth its salt. There is almost nothing out there for women that has the kind of technical features you can find on men’s gear. (For example, the BMG Adventure II Jacket looks great and has great features, but would likely be too wide through the shoulders and waist and too tight through the chest and hip area on a woman).

    Reply
    1. moskomoto Post author

      we hear you on the ladies fitment. To start, it’ll be guy’s sizing. But we know there’s an opportunity with ladies sizing, and would love to pursue that down the road.

      Reply
      1. Shannon

        I 100% agree, technical adv women’s riding gear is almost completely missing. Where it does exist, it often has less protection and less features then the mens… like somehow women don’t need the same protection. Being as Klim sold out of their women’s riding gear here in Canada BEFORE riding season started, I think there might be a small, but growing, market. I’d get in line to buy well fitting, protective women’s adventure gear!

  6. Alex Guo

    Didn’t realize you guys were also moving into apparel, this is a great step. Love all the features and thoughtfulness you put into your products.

    Couple of Suggestions:

    1. Many pants on the market leak at the crotch during extended rain travel. There’s an inherent weakness in the area due to the seams required and water getting trapped in the area by your seating position. Would be great to have pants that do not make me look like I wet myself.

    2. Klim pants have a great feature where it is also abrasion resistant on the inside (inside the pant leg, not “inside” between the legts) of the pant legs to protect the pants from Moto-x boot buckles, knee braces, etc. If your liner is too soft it will get torn up from the inside.

    3. Maybe the stuff sack for the rain jacket can be sized to fit perfectly inside the small MOLLE pocket instead of just as its own bag. For people who have already used up their MOLLE attachment points.

    Looking forward to more great work!

    Reply

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